On Wednesday 13 June 2007 19:49:23 Alexandre Oliva wrote:
<snip>
Are you an idiot, or do you just choose to ignore all proof that doesn't fit
your preconceived beliefs? TiVO gives you every right to the Linux kernel
that they recieved. What they don't give you the right to do is use modified
versions on their *HARDWARE* - which they have *NEVER* given you any rights
to, except for "normal use". (And no, it isn't legal to put those 200G hard
drives in your TiVO no matter what you think)
Exactly. They don't. What TiVO prevents is using that modified version on
their hardware. And they have that right, because the Hardware *ISN'T*
covered by the GPL.
Do you understand that, or do I need to break out the finger-puppets next ?
And this unnaturally restricts the freedom of hardware manufacturers. If they
add a custom, internal connector so a repair shop can restore the hardware to
its *FACTORY* state then it is "possible to install modified versions",
provided the person doing it has the specialized hardware needed.
And this is what the FSF, RMS and yes, *YOU*, Alexandre, fail to realize - the
GPL covers *ONLY* the software. It has *ZERO* legal standing when applied to
hardware. Not even the most draconian of MS EULA's tries to apply itself to
the hardware.
In the case of 99% of the hardware targeted by the clause of the GPLv3 you
elucidate on, the "ability to install modified versions of the software" was
*NOT* intended for that use, nor was it intended for *ANYONE* *EXCEPT*
trained service personell to have *ACCESS* to that functionality. Arguing
otherwise is just idiotic - I have never found a piece of "high tech"
hardware (like a TiVO) that was designed for the end-user to modify. (yes,
installing a new version of the linux kernel is "modifying" the system)
And? They distribute the kernel source - as they recieved it - in compliance
with the GPL. Their additions - whether they be "modules" or just the UI - do
not, necessarily, fall under the GPL. (Yes, there have been discussions about
whether a kernel module is a derived work, but most of the time those
discussions ended "Legally they aren't, even though I feel they should be")
What "Legally Entitled" things?
And... You do realize that almost every difference between the GPLv2 and the
GPLv3 is going to cause a hell of a lot of problems? The fact that the GPLv3
is designed to prevent things that RMS *PERSONALLY* finds distasteful - DRM
and the like - is a big turn-off for a *LOT* of people. (Personally I don't
like *ANY* version of the GPL, because there are chunks I have problems with)
But you aren't talking about a "computer" here. You're talking about a
mass-market device that must comply with both US and International copyright
law - and that's just a TiVO. Other devices have other laws they have to
comply with - in the US the FCC's regulations control all radio devices, so
if you upload a modified linux kernel to your wireless router that gives it a
2000 foot range, you've just broken the law *AND* violated the license on the
hardware which states that you "won't modify it or the controlling
software" - in most cases "the controlling software" is just the firmware,
but with modern wireless hardware, the firmware is loaded by the OS.
But he isn't. The GPLv3 says, and I'll quote you here - "Per the GPLv3
(paraphrased), if it is possible to install modified versions of the covered
program in the device, you must tell the recipient how to do it."
"Installation Information" for a User Product means any methods, procedures,
authorization keys, or other information required to install and execute
modified versions of a covered work in that User Product from a modified
version of its Corresponding Source. The information must suffice to ensure
that the continued functioning of the modified object code is in no case
prevented or interfered with solely because modification has been made.
and:
If you convey an object code work under this section in, or with, or
specifically for use in, a User Product, and the conveying occurs as part of
a transaction in which the right of possession and use of the User Product is
transferred to the recipient in perpetuity or for a fixed term (regardless of
how the transaction is characterized), the Corresponding Source conveyed
under this section must be accompanied by the Installation Information. But
this requirement does not apply if neither you nor any third party retains
the ability to install modified object code on the User Product (for example,
the work has been installed in ROM).
So it's not just a designed in ability to run modified code - ie: running of
modified code is a feature meant for the user to take advantage of - but even
things like the connectors used to upload the operating software at the
factory that people now cannot have in a device that runs GPL(v3) covered
software unless they ship the related "Installation Information". In other
words, companies are no longer allowed to have a completely separate license
for hardware and software.
That, to me, reads like RMS got mad about TiVO and said "I don't like it, lets
add a clause making it wrong to the next GPL". Hell, that *IS* what happened,
and nothing the FSF or Eben Moglen says will convince me otherwise. It's the
same for the bits that were added after Novell signed their agreement with
MS.
And since when did they have to enable people to use their hardware in
violation of the licensing agreement they implicitly agree to when opening
the package?
There is *NOTHING* stopping you from doing whatever you want with the code
that runs on a TiVO (or any similar device). You (and everyone that thinks
like you) are confusing a want to use the *HARDWARE* however you want with
your GPL granted "right" to do what you want with the *SOFTWARE*.
No, he's making a point. RMS and the FSF, in drafting GPLv3 to include the
language and clauses it does, is "protecting your freedom" the way a lot of
the post 9/11 changes to the US Federal code does it. (ie: by saying "no, you
can't do that anymore")
DRH
--
Dialup is like pissing through a pipette. Slow and excruciatingly painful.
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