Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
From: Linus Torvalds
Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 1:05 pm

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:

That is largely on purpose.

There's two choices:

 - have a longer and calmer merge window, spread out the joy, and have 
   people test and fix their things during the merge window too. In other 
   words, less black-and-white.

 - Really short merge window, and use the extra time *after* it to fix the 
   issues.

and I've obviously gone for the latter. In fact, I'd personally like to 
make it even shorter, because the problem with the long merge window can 
be summed up very simply:

   Long merge windows don't work - because rather than test more, it just 
   means that people will use them to make more changes!

So one of the major things about the short merge window is that it's 
hopefully encouraging people to have things ready by the time the merge 
window opens, because it's too late to do anything later.

And yes, we could have some other way of enforcing that - allow the merge 
window to be longer, but have some other mechanism to make sure that I 
only merge old code. 

In fact, I'd personally *love* to have a hard rule that says "I will only 
pull from trees that were already 'done' by the time the window opened", 
and we've been kind-of moving in that direction.

But that wish is counteracted by the fact that the merges themselves do 
need some development, so expecting everything to be ready before-hand is 
simply not realistic. 

Also, while I'd like trees to be ready when the window opens, at the same 
time I do think that it's good to spread out some of it, and get *some* 
basic testing - even if it's just a nightly build and a few tens of 
developers.


And really, that's all that we'd expect during the merge window. We want 
to find the *obvious* problems - build issues, and the things that hit 
everybody, but let's face it, the subtle ones will take time to find 
regardless.

Then, the short merge window means that we have more time when we really 
don't have big changes going in to find the subtle ones.

(And making the release cycle longer would *not* help - that would just 
make the next merge window more painful, so while it can, and does, work 
for some individual release with particular problems, it's not a solution 
in the long run).

			Linus
--
Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Tue Apr 29, 7:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Tue Apr 29, 9:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Tue Apr 29, 9:18 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 12:03 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Wed Apr 30, 12:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 6:04 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Michael Kerrisk, (Wed Apr 30, 6:18 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 6:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mike Galbraith, (Wed Apr 30, 6:38 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 7:15 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 7:20 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 7:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, mws, (Wed Apr 30, 7:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Peter Teoh, (Wed Apr 30, 7:48 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:51 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 8:02 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 8:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 11:21 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 11:27 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 11:55 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Friesen, (Wed Apr 30, 12:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 12:16 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 12:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 12:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 12:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:00 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 1:05 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 1:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:15 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 1:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 1:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 1:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dan Noe, (Wed Apr 30, 1:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 1:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 1:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 2:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 2:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 2:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 2:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 2:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 2:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, H. Peter Anvin, (Wed Apr 30, 2:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 3:02 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Slaby, (Wed Apr 30, 3:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:08 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:10 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 3:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 3:22 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 3:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 3:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 3:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 3:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 3:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 3:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 3:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:49 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 3:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 3:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Wed Apr 30, 3:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 3:54 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Wed Apr 30, 4:04 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 4:11 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 4:12 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 4:20 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 4:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:23 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Paul Mackerras, (Wed Apr 30, 4:29 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Greg KH, (Wed Apr 30, 4:34 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 4:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 4:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:45 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 4:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 4:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 5:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 5:14 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Shoemaker, (Wed Apr 30, 5:15 pm)
RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 5:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 5:38 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 5:38 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 5:41 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:42 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Wed Apr 30, 5:56 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 5:57 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Arjan van de Ven, (Wed Apr 30, 6:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 6:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:25 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 6:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Wed Apr 30, 6:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Theodore Tso, (Wed Apr 30, 6:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeremy Fitzhardinge, (Wed Apr 30, 6:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ingo Molnar, (Wed Apr 30, 6:40 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 6:43 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 6:51 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 30, 6:57 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:01 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 7:13 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 7:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Wed Apr 30, 7:21 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 7:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Nigel Cunningham, (Wed Apr 30, 7:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Wed Apr 30, 7:48 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 7:52 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bob Tracy, (Wed Apr 30, 8:24 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 8:47 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Frans Pop, (Wed Apr 30, 8:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Wed Apr 30, 9:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Newall, (Wed Apr 30, 9:31 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, David Miller, (Wed Apr 30, 9:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Apr 30, 9:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 10:09 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Wed Apr 30, 10:19 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 10:35 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Wed Apr 30, 10:50 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jan Engelhardt, (Wed Apr 30, 11:15 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 1:13 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Alan Cox, (Thu May 1, 2:17 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Enrico Weigelt, (Thu May 1, 3:30 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 3:59 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 4:30 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 4:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 4:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Will Newton, (Thu May 1, 5:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Thu May 1, 5:31 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:41 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, David Woodhouse, (Thu May 1, 5:42 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 5:53 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 6:02 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierki ..., (Thu May 1, 6:16 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 6:21 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 6:23 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Lennart Sorensen, (Thu May 1, 6:49 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 6:53 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 6:54 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 7:06 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Bartlomiej Zolnierki ..., (Thu May 1, 7:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 8:26 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kasper Sandberg, (Thu May 1, 8:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ray Lee, (Thu May 1, 8:29 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Thu May 1, 8:34 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 8:49 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Diego Calleja, (Thu May 1, 9:26 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Dmitri Vorobiev, (Thu May 1, 9:31 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 9:38 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Valdis.Kletnieks, (Thu May 1, 9:39 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 10:09 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 10:18 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Theodore Tso, (Thu May 1, 10:24 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 10:41 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 11:11 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 11:23 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Linus Torvalds, (Thu May 1, 11:30 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Clark, (Thu May 1, 11:32 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Chris Frey, (Thu May 1, 11:35 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 11:50 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Adrian Bunk, (Thu May 1, 11:54 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 11:58 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 12:03 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Thu May 1, 12:07 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 12:26 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 12:28 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Valdis.Kletnieks, (Thu May 1, 12:36 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Al Viro, (Thu May 1, 12:37 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Friedrich , (Thu May 1, 12:39 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Steven Rostedt, (Thu May 1, 12:39 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, david, (Thu May 1, 12:46 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Willy Tarreau, (Thu May 1, 12:53 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andrew Morton, (Thu May 1, 12:58 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Joel Becker, (Thu May 1, 1:07 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 2:59 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rafael J. Wysocki, (Thu May 1, 3:17 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Kevin Winchester, (Thu May 1, 4:06 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stephen Rothwell, (Thu May 1, 6:48 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Thu May 1, 7:08 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Thu May 1, 9:09 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 1:29 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 2:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Paul Mackerras, (Fri May 2, 3:16 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Andi Kleen, (Fri May 2, 3:20 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Adrian Bunk, (Fri May 2, 4:58 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Stefan Richter, (Fri May 2, 5:17 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Enrico Weigelt, (Fri May 2, 6:22 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Helge Hafting, (Fri May 2, 6:37 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Tarkan Erimer, (Fri May 2, 7:05 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 7:58 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Mariusz Kozlowski, (Fri May 2, 8:33 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 8:44 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Linus Torvalds, (Fri May 2, 9:28 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 2, 10:15 am)
RE: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pallipadi, Venkatesh, (Fri May 2, 11:02 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rene Herman, (Sat May 3, 8:26 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 5:45 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Pekka Enberg, (Sun May 4, 6:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Rene Herman, (Sun May 4, 6:19 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Krzysztof Halasa, (Sun May 4, 6:47 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jacek Luczak, (Sun May 4, 8:05 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Rusty Russell, (Sun May 4, 8:04 pm)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Benny Halevy, (Mon May 5, 3:03 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jiri Kosina, (Fri May 9, 2:28 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Jeff Garzik, (Fri May 9, 8:00 am)
Re: RFC: starting a kernel-testers group for newbies, Carlos R. Mafra, (Fri May 9, 12:30 pm)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Ben Dooks, (Mon May 12, 2:27 am)
Re: Slow DOWN, please!!!, Pavel Machek, (Wed May 14, 7:55 am)