Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default

Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]
From: Ingo Molnar
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008 - 3:54 am

* Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


Wrong.

Even if the system has multiple CPUs, and even if just a single CPU is 
fully utilized by an RT task, without the rt-limit the system will still 
lock up in practice due to various other factors: workqueues and tasks 
being 'stuck' on CPUs that host an RT hog. While there's obviously CPU 
time available on other CPUs, you cannot run 'top', the desktop will 
freeze, work flows of the system can be stuck, etc, etc..

With the rt limit in place, it's all pretty smooth and debuggable. Even 
with all CPUs hogged by SCHED_FIFO prio 99 the system is laggy but 
debuggable - the user can run 'top' and can resolve the situation.

Really, this reply of yours shows something startling: that despite this 
many mails you still have never actually tried to run the scenario you 
are complaining about: you have never tried to run a CPU hog high-prio 
RT task on a Linux system before, and you have never observed the 
effects it has on general system stability and debuggability.

This fundamental lack of experience weakens all your arguments and i 
dont even know why you are arguing about it. Do you perhaps have some 
customer application/workload you are worried about? If you have then 
please tell us about the exact specifics - this handwaving about 
compliance really makes little sense.

In other words: in our car the air-bag continues to be enabled by 
default, and if someone wants to use the car for stunts the air-bag can 
be disabled via that handy sysctl.

In any case i think i'm going to ignore this thread from now on, nothing 
new has been said really, just the general tone of discussion is 
deteriorating. You are also very late with raising objections in any 
case - the rt-limit feature has been posted 10 months ago and went 
upstream 8 months ago - two full kernel cycles have been completed with 
this change in place and a third one has almost been finished.

        Ingo
--
Previous message: [thread] [date] [author]
Next message: [thread] [date] [author]

Messages in current thread:
[PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Peter Zijlstra, (Tue Aug 19, 3:33 am)
[PATCH] sched: extract walk_tg_tree(), fix, Ingo Molnar, (Tue Aug 19, 4:42 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Max Krasnyansky, (Tue Aug 19, 11:15 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Thomas Gleixner, (Tue Aug 26, 4:09 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Theodore Tso, (Tue Aug 26, 5:50 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Stefani Seibold, (Tue Aug 26, 6:31 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Mark Hounschell, (Tue Aug 26, 6:47 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Theodore Tso, (Tue Aug 26, 10:55 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Thomas Gleixner, (Tue Aug 26, 2:37 pm)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Steven Rostedt, (Tue Aug 26, 4:00 pm)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Chris Friesen, (Wed Aug 27, 11:55 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Ingo Molnar, (Thu Aug 28, 3:54 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Peter Zijlstra, (Thu Aug 28, 4:19 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Peter Zijlstra, (Thu Aug 28, 5:00 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Steven Rostedt, (Thu Aug 28, 7:15 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Steven Rostedt, (Thu Aug 28, 8:12 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Steven Rostedt, (Thu Aug 28, 8:50 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Peter Zijlstra, (Thu Aug 28, 9:05 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Steven Rostedt, (Thu Aug 28, 9:15 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Max Krasnyansky, (Thu Aug 28, 9:19 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Peter Zijlstra, (Thu Aug 28, 9:29 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Max Krasnyansky, (Thu Aug 28, 9:33 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Aug 28, 10:26 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Steven Rostedt, (Thu Aug 28, 11:04 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Darren Hart, (Thu Aug 28, 11:10 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Mark Hounschell, (Thu Aug 28, 11:16 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Aug 28, 11:42 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Steven Rostedt, (Thu Aug 28, 11:53 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Stefani Seibold, (Thu Aug 28, 12:39 pm)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Aug 29, 12:56 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Peter Zijlstra, (Fri Aug 29, 1:06 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Mike Galbraith, (Fri Aug 29, 1:47 am)
Re: [PATCH 6/6] sched: disabled rt-bandwidth by default, Nick Piggin, (Fri Aug 29, 11:33 pm)