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This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig417988EA032CC571F6FAAA13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The OM Wiki is still a prime example of 'How not to do a Wiki". a few easy example on the main page. 1.) On the main page is a link for "Test cases", Why is this on the main = page? Its useless to 90% of the users and should be under Development. 2.) There is a "Software" link that leads you the "Developer Guide"???=20 WTF? 3.) There is a "Hardware link" and the 1973 & FR links. Why? Both the=20 1973 & Fr pages have their respective hardware links on their pages.=20 Its a classic misdirection. It looks like Openmoko wants the Neo to fail, because if the main source = for information on how to operate the phone is this WIki, its doomed. Isn't there supposed to be some new "Wiki Editor" force around that was=20 going to fix things? Scott --------------enig417988EA032CC571F6FAAA13 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiNxWoACgkQCgK4H9Oa1dlMtgCeKPhc/x9sK7AWk4GCX2gv2iAD u7cAoJPN3TSiZpWt0ntrEsC7gRWbQaQM =HNcs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig417988EA032CC571F6FAAA13--
--JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Well, it *is* a wiki... feel free to fix it. Hugo. -- === Hugo Mills: hugo@... carfax.org.uk | darksatanic.net | lug.org.uk === PGP key: 515C238D from wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net or http://www.carfax.org.uk --- I must be musical: I've got *loads* of CDs --- --JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIjcbRIKyzvlFcI40RApMoAKCyFXUjQv2DzISs+tD77ObhlLOPPACffKUk fGAc3MJ0xA2e61sXl1HX0r8= =LTBs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --JP+T4n/bALQSJXh8--
I had a FR on friday and I can configure that finding informations on the wiki is hard. May I suggest to replace the internal search with a search on google ? I personaly think that this is the problem ... _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
I once configured a MediaWiki we were using for internal documentation at a place I worked to use Swish++ as its internal search engine, so as to be able to find words within page text, as well as uploaded files (PDFs, Word docs etc.). I don't remember all the details now, but it's a possible route for a wiki to actually have a good search engine. _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
It's easier to complain than to fix. I yelled about the wiki for months. After once day of editing it I realized it was a monumental task that only the community can address at this time. -----Original Message----- From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Hugo Mills Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 6:17 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: WIKI still a POS Well, it *is* a wiki... feel free to fix it. Hugo. -- === Hugo Mills: hugo@... carfax.org.uk | darksatanic.net | lug.org.uk === PGP key: 515C238D from wwwkeys.eu.pgp.net or http://www.carfax.org.uk --- I must be musical: I've got *loads* of CDs --- _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You should know it's improved significantly over the last couple weeks. To me it seems the Getting Started page in particular has been much improved. (That's where I've spent most of my time.) _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Vinc, I agree there have been some improvements. But the main page is still really broken! I would love to see this project succeed beyond the usual "Only for Geeks" Linix/OS project. They way it is now the state of the documentation for a normal user is a guarantees it is doomed to be a very very small niche product at best. Every time I go to the wiki for new info it is a painful and frustrating process. Yes if I am going to reread something I already know is there its not bad, but ferreting out new information is not easy. Scott _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Please give us a bit more time. We're having lots and LOTS of internal discussions on how to make our Wiki better. We know the quality is not what we all want. Brenda (and crew) will be talking with everyone a lot more in the coming weeks of our plans to get/integrate your feedback. I'm 100% confident we can get there. -Sean _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Sean, OK, I'll hop off the box for now. And thanks for letting us know you folks are aware of the problem and working on it. Scott _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Then start helping out with the wiki editing and stop complaining. For a bunch of OpenSource Fans I sure hear a lot of bitching and less "doing". P a r t I c I p a t e -----Original Message----- From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Scott Derrick Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 8:04 AM To: community@lists.openmoko.org Subject: Re: WIKI still a POS Vinc, I agree there have been some improvements. But the main page is still really broken! I would love to see this project succeed beyond the usual "Only for Geeks" Linix/OS project. They way it is now the state of the documentation for a normal user is a guarantees it is doomed to be a very very small niche product at best. Every time I go to the wiki for new info it is a painful and frustrating process. Yes if I am going to reread something I already know is there its not bad, but ferreting out new information is not easy. Scott _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig5603DBA512788F3764AE1453 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I was under the impression that OpenMoko is a company about selling a mobile phone not a community Wiki ... Regards Robert --------------enig5603DBA512788F3764AE1453 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREIAAYFAkiO8zMACgkQG9cfwmwwEtrqfwCfXz6kxRN6iUVas0+XkAjjAByt uhsAoIZIdOMFCZ5y7VIXnuE93DBjfoTv =mFzP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig5603DBA512788F3764AE1453--
This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enigCE2619BEFEA0C6A1D6D53186 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A phone without usable documentation is a door stop. Scott --------------enigCE2619BEFEA0C6A1D6D53186 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkiPGNgACgkQCgK4H9Oa1dmArwCfVEUk8lWsc4nH2Y9cu4gjzyc1 LVUAn3+PQ4+w7EQ77LQNtyGd0h6t0up9 =JrXM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enigCE2619BEFEA0C6A1D6D53186--
A phone that NEEDS documentation is a POS. In my mind, the Neo won't be ready for end-users unless I can give it to one of my co-workers and they can figure almost everything out without documentation. -Steven _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Then your co-workers should get iPhones! I thought OpenMoko was for
those of us who would embrace a machine with a learning-curve for extra
capability. Probably the same crowd who uses Linux on the desktop.
Kind of like the decision process that one goes through when choosing
between, say, Linux and. Mac OS X for a particular user's desktop in a
particular work-environment. Exactly like that, actually.
-Luke
P.S. I've been using Linux on my desktop nonstop since about 1998 and,
despite all of the (and my), winging on listservs and on Slashdot, only
two things have changed:
* All of the platforms have gotten better. Much better.
* The interoperability between platforms has gotten better.
Provided that you can influence the choices that the server and
the client make, anyway. (You might have to choose Zimbra over
Exchange, for instance.)
With the interoperability being so much improved, there's really no
reason to evangelize platforms anymore -- at least if your server-admins
will play ball and choose applications/protocols that are widely
supported. So, just use what you like and let your co-workers do the
same. If everyone talks the same protocols, there's no reason for any
platform or application to be all things to all people -- the
compromises required to do that is one of the reasons I rarely choose
Microsoft products for my own use. Just make it good -- and don't worry
about the rest.
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On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 8:48 AM, Luke Scharf <luke.scharf@clusterbee.net> wrote: <snip> I read some time ago on one of the the Openmoko sites that OM/FICA needs or wants to sell 10 millions Neo's in 2008. I wanted to include a link for reference but can't find one. I think my point that they need to sell a lot of phones is still valid. I'm not flaming anyone. Just pointing out my opinion that just selling to nerds would be a good way to kill a device that needs, IMO, large numbers to be sustainable. _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
You misunderstand. A PHONE should need no documentation. The Neo is more than a phone. So, some features may need some documentation. But the phone part of it should just work. But really, I'm having trouble thinking of a feature I would use regularly that would be acceptable to require documentation. I hope I would only need documentation if I'm actually in the code making changes. -Steven _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Okay -- I see your perspective and I agree but I think people are calling it "a phone" because that's a convenient handle. For my 10 minute test yesterday it worked just like a phone. I dialed, it connected. It rang, I answered. Another 10 minutes and I'd probably know how to answer on the first try! I might even get my own SIM now. Sharp learning curves are always bad even for geeks. I have a pile of GPS devices that need pretty extensive documentation. For day to day use I get by but if I put one in a box for a couple months I have to have the docs to refresh my memory. Garmin has a new touch screen device now. The UI on my eTrex Vista is well-thought out and implemented especially as a follow-on to having already learned on their earlier eMap. I can usually figure things out without docs. I wonder how they did on the new one. Topic topic??? -- oh right -- the Wiki -- one of these days I will try to work more on the Wiki. I have several of my own and I know how rambling and disconnected they can become. My 2 cents is -- OM should work hard to try to make the text search feature work better (then tell me how they did it). I have used MediaWiki for several years and its built-in text search sucks. Finding an alternative (SwishE or whatever) would be a big step in the right direction but organizing the data is also vital (and quite difficult). If I figure out the magic Mediawiki search silver bullet first then I will share it with OM. Brian _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
If you were to flash it with QTopia it would very nearly qualify. _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Maybe you are not happy because you think it's just a phone. To me it's a complete programmable handheld computer which happens to have a GSM phone feature. The phone is a fairly insignificant feature for some of us. If all you want is a phone, go to the supermarket, they have really nice ones there that don't come with any significant documentation. I use one myself. I am trying to develop GPS software for the OM. I have had about 15 minutes a day to work on it so far but it's been fun. I don't really care (much) about navigation features, I care about data collection. The competition is not TangoGPS or Garmin or Tom-Tom or anything OM is likely to come out with. Therefore documentation is vitally important to me. Incidentally I borrowed a friend's T-Mobile SIM card and tried the phone feature yesterday. It worked fine (including the documentation). Brian _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
Perfectly put -----Original Message----- From: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org [mailto:community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org] On Behalf Of Brian Wilson Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:37 AM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: WIKI still a POS Maybe you are not happy because you think it's just a phone. To me it's a complete programmable handheld computer which happens to have a GSM phone feature. The phone is a fairly insignificant feature for some of us. If all you want is a phone, go to the supermarket, they have really nice ones there that don't come with any significant documentation. I use one myself. I am trying to develop GPS software for the OM. I have had about 15 minutes a day to work on it so far but it's been fun. I don't really care (much) about navigation features, I care about data collection. The competition is not TangoGPS or Garmin or Tom-Tom or anything OM is likely to come out with. Therefore documentation is vitally important to me. Incidentally I borrowed a friend's T-Mobile SIM card and tried the phone feature yesterday. It worked fine (including the documentation). Brian _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
As Sean said , I really need more time to improve wiki . 1.Test cases is for Openmoko test team. I put it on main page , let them easy to find that. (That's why ). Yes, 90% of users won't use this link. I will discuss with our test team. Change the link to somewhere else. 2.Yes, from the very beginning , Software link, linked to Software category page, now , it link to Developer Guide. This page's aim is helping those new developer who want to join develop Softwares. Actually , in wiki , we had many page is talking about the software they want to share with others, I will make a link for them also. 3.My original idea is "HARDWARE" collect all page related to hardware. Neo 1973 and FR is alos belong to hardware. Actually , I want wiki have sub menu functions, just like drop down menu, or menu tree. That will do great help (I am survey now ). Brenda From _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list community@lists.openmoko.org http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community
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