Michael Smith recently posted his resignation from the FreeBSD core team. His resignation came shortly after the resignation of one of the FreeBSD founder's, Jordan Hubbard [earlier story]. Michael echoed similiar sentiments, with the project no longer being fun for him, "instead [it having] become obsessed with process and mechanics."
On the FreeBSD home page you can find a historical list of core team members, a list of the current core members, and a list of contributors who have commit privileges to the FreeBSD source tree.
Jordan Hubbard offers some insight, "I think that if FreeBSD is to succeed in the much longer-term, it needs to transcend its "old guard" beginnings and transition to being governed by a new and entirely more youthful set of folks, it perhaps being a maxim for the future that if you've been in core before then you don't qualify, no hard feelings or offense meant."
From: Michael Smith Subject: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 03:29:00 -0700 Declaration =========== When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project. Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it. FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile. It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics. So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project. Discussion ========== I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly. From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrip our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished. There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want. Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress. Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers? Shouts ====== To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad. To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It's when you get distracted by the politickers that they sideline you. The tireless work that you perform keeping the system clean and building is what provides the platform for the obsessives and the prima donnas to have their moments in the sun. In the end, we need you all; in order to go forwards we must first avoid going backwards. To the paranoid conspiracy theorists - yes, I work for Apple too. No, my resignation wasn't on Steve's direct orders, or in any way related to work I'm doing, may do, may not do, or indeed what was in the tea I had at lunchtime today. It's about real problems that the project faces, real problems that the project has brought upon itself. You can't escape them by inventing excuses about outside influence, the problem stems from within. To the politically obsessed - give it a break, if you can. No, the project isn't a lemonade stand anymore, but it's not a world-spanning corporate juggernaut either and some of the more grandiose visions going around are in need of a solid dose of reality. Keep it simple, stupid. To the grandstanders, the prima donnas, and anyone that thinks that they can hold the project to ransom for their own agenda - give it a break, if you can. When the current core were elected, we took a conscious stand against vigorous sanctions, and some of you have exploited that. A new core is going to have to decide whether to repeat this mistake or get tough. I hope they learn from our errors. Future ====== I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations. However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the next round of ballots. You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project somewhere fun to be again. = Mike -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt From: Chris Knight Subject: RE: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:30:27 +1000 Howdy, It's unfortunate that it has got to the stage where you feel it necessary to leave core. I can appreciate you doing so, but from the sentiments you expressed, it sounds like the FreeBSD community needs more people like you within core. I'd like to thank you for your all your efforts related to FreeBSD, especially where you have personally helped me out. I hope for FreeBSD's sake that your disenchantment doesn't extend to code-cutting - talented programmers such as yourself are hard to come by; committee executives are a dime a dozen. Regards, Chris Knight Systems Administrator AIMS Independent Computer Professionals Web: http://www.aims.com.au From: Andy Sporner Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 13:44:49 +0200 I will keep this short so someone does jump all over me about being off topic about this. I share some of his ideas, but mainly those dealing with frustration. People here are saying with their mouths that they want new blood here, but following through with actions. People are afraid when somebody leaves core like this, but what about the future people who might want to help in this level. Short to the point as far as I am concerned. I have been in this business far too long to be treated like a newbie. I may be a new face here and my language may not be the best, but guarantee that unless the mood changes a little bit and it becomes a little more fun you can have it all to yourselves! :-( This comes to basic courtesy. If I reply to a question, then pay attention to that and not do like a particular one does and boldly expand to the point of being like an encyclopedia. This has happened more than once! I have been cautioned by a few wiser people here to have a thicker skin, but I will say one thing. As long as I am giving my free time (something these days that is in short supply) at least I should have fun at it and this just isn't fun... Let's all try to get along a little better. That goes for all the syntax checkers and people who are so stuck on rules of posting that they forget what collaboration and coopeation mean. If you don't like to read something, there's the delete key. It keeps the whole environment more civil. Not everybody has had the fortitude or longitude of being here for so long to know all of this historical arguments or what has or has not been said, so they know what should not be said. If there are complaint write them privately (Seems like I read these somewhere). Andy
From: Robert Watson Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 8 May 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and > milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's > about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most > people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. > Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of > where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and > mechanics. > > So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing > something" about a project that has lost interest in having something > done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a > losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't > achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain > obligated to care for the project. Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we're sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, and that I hope that you'll choose to remain involved in the project in the manner you feel both able and willing. Your contributions in both the technical space (expecially relating to hardware support for RAID, and especially of late relating to ACPI) have been greatly appreciated, as have your contributions to managing the project and setting its direction. In all institutions, there are the inevitable politics, and the inevitable noise. That noise can become overwhelming, especially when the noisy people are quite noisy and Feel They Must Be Heard; that said, while I sympathize with your viewpoint, I'm not sure I agree with the fundamental conclusion. My only suggestion would be that you do exactly what you are already doing. Take a step back (maybe two), and do the things that you find personally motivating--spending time on things that leave you with this kind of feeling isn't what it's all about. See if some combination of the project growing and your being less involved makes things sufficiently palatable for you to become more involved again. > I started work on FreeBSD because it was fun. If I'm going to continue, > it has to be fun again. There are things I still feel obligated to do, > and with any luck I'll find the time to meet those obligations. That's more than we can ask of you, and something we're lucky if you want to do. :-) > However I don't feel an obligation to get involved in the political mess > the project is in right now. I tried, I burnt out. I don't feel that > my efforts were worthwhile. So I won't be standing for election, I > won't be shouting from the sidelines, and I probably won't vote in the > next round of ballots. > > You could say I'm packing up my toys. I'm not going home just yet, but > I'm not going to play unless you can work out how to make the project > somewhere fun to be again. I think it's still fun for many people involved, or more of them would long since have left. I know I personally enjoy this work a great deal, and that's why I spend so much time on it. I also know that it's not the political fray that I'm here for--it's the fascinating technical work, the challenge of the operating system environment, and the opportunity to do some new and really exciting things with a number of other people who feel the same way. The FreeBSD Project has proven in the past, and still proves to be, an excellent vehicle for people who have a technical vision and technical expertise to explore both of them, and at the end of the day, produce a piece of software that lets hundreds of millions of people a day do their work. We need to look at this past success to see the success we can have in the future. I agree that there needs to be change in the areas you've pointed at--I've taken note, and I hope that others will too. Thanks again for everything you've done, Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Project [email filtered] NAI Labs, Safeport Network Services From: Sheldon Hearn Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 18:29:10 +0200 On Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we're > sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, [...] Nope, you don't speak for me. I'm thrilled that Mike's leaving the core team. His heart's obviously not in it any more, so the fact that he has all the right skills for being useful on core doesn't mean anything any more. And his leaving the core team will hopefully free him up to contribute more brilliant code. I can't be the only one getting the warm fuzzies at the prospect of an mlycontrol(8). :-) Only thing I'm sorry to hear is that Mike's not a superhuman. Fortunately, the new Spider Man movie's just been released here in South Africa, so I think I'll cope. :-) Ciao, Sheldon. From: Joerg Micheel Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:34:41 +1200 On Wed, May 08, 2002 at 06:29:10PM +0200, Sheldon Hearn wrote: > On Wed, 08 May 2002 10:00:12 -0400, Robert Watson wrote: > > > Well, I think I speak for everyone in the project when I say that we're > > sorry to hear that you are resigning from the core team, [...] > > Nope, you don't speak for me. I'm thrilled that Mike's leaving the core > team. His heart's obviously not in it any more, so the fact that he has > all the right skills for being useful on core doesn't mean anything any > more. It sounds like it is people like you who have been giving Mike a hard time. It also appears that you haven't learned a iota from this whole incident. Honestly, I would have rather you had kept your mouth shut and listened, this is not the time to spread your evil ink, but sit down and ponder about what went wrong here. I am not impressed. Joerg From: Coleman Kane Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 17:02:15 -0400 Who knows, perhaps between Mike and Jordan leaving and the atmosphere that surrounds all of this trouble, it may bring up leadership from some of the younger community to actually do something real nice for the project. I first started working on the project about three or so years ago, got commit status actually recommended by Mike of all people and have been helping out in my spare time (between school and work). I started using the OS back when 2.2.8 came out and fell in love with it instantly, which I sure is true of many others soon after their initial install of FreeBSD. Heck, at UC we changed the Linux Users' Group to the Free OS Users' group due to the number of staunch BSD advocates and users who were active members. Anyway, I don't really believe the whole 'FreeBSD is dead' crap that has been circulating, with the quickly growing user base and the increase in developer support this is a setback for the group, but it will live on, at least as long as there is a significant community backing it up. When we all vote for Core this time, it will be for a new set of representatives for the group. Perhaps this time it will bring together new faces and ideas for the future of the project. Anyway Mike, it was great to have a developer of your caliber on the core team, but I can identify with the problems that arise when procedural and political work begins to conflict with the coding work that one is working on. Hope you haven't been too turned off to the point of dropping out alltogether. Try not to let the personal attacks get to you. Thats my 2 cents, -- coleman kane From: Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 17:20:34 -0700 > Anyway, I don't really believe the whole 'FreeBSD is dead' crap that > has been circulating, with the quickly growing user base and the > increase in developer support this is a setback for the group, but > it will live on, at least as long as there is a significant > community backing it up. When we all vote for Core this time, it > will be for a new set of representatives for the group. Perhaps this > time it will bring together new faces and ideas for the future of > the project. I'm quite glad to hear you say that, frankly. I think that if FreeBSD is to succeed in the much longer-term, it needs to transcend its "old guard" beginnings and transition to being governed by a new and entirely more youthful set of folks, it perhaps being a maxim for the future that if you've been in core before then you don't qualify, no hard feelings or offense meant. Of course, I also expect the old guard to fight this tooth and nail with lots of dire predictions as to what will happen if anyone under 30 gets into core or why only a long and hoary track-record truly qualifies one for the job. As an old guardsman myself, I say ``bah!'' to that sort of self-serving "logic" since we've already proven over the last two rounds that experienced people are more than capable of making mistakes or being blind to all the relevant signs and portents when things are going off the rails. Even if it came with a penalty of inexperience and beginner's mistakes, I wouldn't mind the fresh energy and enthusiasm that a totally new slate would bring. It's not like those of us in 1992 were entirely blessed with loads of experience at doing this when we started and look what we managed to create. - Jordan From: Brian T.Schellenberger Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 22:37:08 -0400 Well, I for one would hope that there would neither be a wholesale turnover, becuase experience is a valuable teacher; nor ossification, because new blood brings in fresh energy and ideas. Having people drop out when it's not fun anymore seems about right, as long as there is some effort to replace those who drop out with those who will counterbalance the loss and not pounce on it as a chance to pad out membership with the qualities already prevelent among those who would be the "winners" if it were a purge. Thus, it would be best to replace Mike with somebody as ANTI-process as possible since an over-reliance on process is what drove him from core; if somebody resigns due to an overly chaotic environment, then adding somebody as PRO-process as possible would probably be called for. Not sure if that makes any sense to anybody else, and naturally I have no right to talk since I've never contributed much, blah blah blah. From: Jordan Hubbard Subject: Re: It's not fun anymore. (Mike resigns from core) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 23:16:06 -0700 > Well, I for one would hope that there would neither be a wholesale turnover, > becuase experience is a valuable teacher; nor ossification, because new blood > brings in fresh energy and ideas. Well, given that this is now a democracy, I guess that's all for the committers to decide. I've merely spoken my piece regarding what I hope they'll choose and what I'll certainly be biased in favor of when presented with the next slate for election.
All the BSD's
Okay I've read some background to the BSD's and their different focuses but is this the start of them starting to merge again or have the code bases diversified too much?
Which BSD did Apple use for Darwin anyway?
Alex
<i> Okay I've read some bac
Okay I've read some background to the BSD's and their different focuses but is this the start of them starting to merge again or have the code bases diversified too much?
No.
Which BSD did Apple use for Darwin anyway?
FreeBSD (for the userland of Darwin).
BSD is dying
Hubbard yadda yadda Smith yadda.
Linux is faster, more efficient, more scalable and modern than FreeBSD.
Thank you for your hard work Smith.
I used to use BSD, now use Linux ... get more work done, BSD used to crash ... etc.